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Post by Raven on Apr 14, 2008 10:22:11 GMT -5
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Post by lindah on Apr 15, 2008 10:08:42 GMT -5
Raven,
How do you know the knife at the end of the film was made in the prop department??
For the record, the prop master sent his aluminum model to Gil look at and make suggestions for acuracey. While Gil had the prop in hand he took a photo of it next to his handmade knife. The handles are the same length. However, Gil said it was not wrapped the same as his and it was not as thick as his, it is possible that is what gives the allusion of a longer handle. As far as the MC copy of the IV knife, I have only seen it once at the Shot Show and it was in a glass case so I did not hold it. The handle on the MC machete may very well be longer than the UC version, I don't know and I don't care.
I see a problem with trying to analyze every single frame of a movie looking for screen accurate reproductions. The fact that props have to be used to keep the actors safe from potentially life threatening accidents means that the props either have to be molded from the original or stamped out like cookies by a machine. It is like using stunt doubles, unless the stunt person is an identicle twin, there will be all kinds of differences.
In regards to the UC knife, what Raven has stated about the photo of their "Hibben IV" knife is almost correct...the photo is not of a prototype but of a sample and it being improved to Gil's specs for accuracey...they will post the new photo as soon as they have the knife in hand.
Linda
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Post by Raven on Apr 16, 2008 13:26:05 GMT -5
Raven, How do you know the knife at the end of the film was made in the prop department?? For the record, the prop master sent his aluminum model to Gil look at and make suggestions for acuracey. While Gil had the prop in hand he took a photo of it next to his handmade knife. The handles are the same length. However, Gil said it was not wrapped the same as his and it was not as thick as his, it is possible that is what gives the allusion of a longer handle. As far as the MC copy of the IV knife, I have only seen it once at the Shot Show and it was in a glass case so I did not hold it. The handle on the MC machete may very well be longer than the UC version, I don't know and I don't care. I see a problem with trying to analyze every single frame of a movie looking for screen accurate reproductions. The fact that props have to be used to keep the actors safe from potentially life threatening accidents means that the props either have to be molded from the original or stamped out like cookies by a machine. It is like using stunt doubles, unless the stunt person is an identicle twin, there will be all kinds of differences. In regards to the UC knife, what Raven has stated about the photo of their "Hibben IV" knife is almost correct...the photo is not of a prototype but of a sample and it being improved to Gil's specs for accuracey...they will post the new photo as soon as they have the knife in hand. Linda Thanks for the info Linda, The pics speak for themselves, but your right, pics can distort scale. It wont be long now before I receive both machetes, it seems that the MC will arrive before the UC version, but it shouldn't be long before I can make my amateur, but unbiased evaluation on the subject, which started out to be an informal and lighthearted affair, but now seems to be taking a different direction that I initially didn't want to happen :-( I naturally assumed the machete that was used in the ending was that of a Prop Master, as the handle is truly a lot longer, than the one Sly had in the pig pen, unless Gil made it ? |
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Post by lindah on Apr 16, 2008 14:28:58 GMT -5
Raven,
You see what you want to see. I explained in my post about the prop knife we received from ythe prop master and it being the same handle length as Gils handmade knife. If you want to say the photos speak for themselves, you should pay attention to your own words and look at the photos that were submitted on Stallonezone as the Rambo III knife comparisons. Those photos speak for themselves. Gil made, with his own hands, 18 different pieces for that film, some were used, some weren't.
You seem to think that MC has the right to capitalize off of Gil's hard work without any recognition or compensation.. I cannot understand that thinking, if it was your property I think the shoe would be on the other foot.
I, quite frankly, don't care what you think anymore. No matter what is presented to you as any kind of evidence, you will not see. Yopu have an agenda, and that is to prove MC is some kind of reputable, quality focused knife producer and that is just not the case. Do yourself a favor, join Blade Forums and put in MTech knockoffs, better yet , google MC knockoffs(use the full name) and Mtech or MtechUSA knockoffs and you will see the type of company you are
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Post by lindah on Apr 16, 2008 14:33:25 GMT -5
Somehow, I cut myself off...you will see the type of company you are so hell bent on defending. You say ethics should be put on the back burner...that is not the consensus of the knife world. I don't care who you think has a better product, it is irrelevant, as you said, it is only a knife.
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Post by lindah on Apr 16, 2008 15:25:52 GMT -5
For anyone interested in seeing the in-depth comprehensive compariaon of ALL of the Rambo III knives: cartertown.com/rambocomparison.htmI have never seen a better report on any product. You have to realize how much time this project must have taken..it just proves the passion for showing all sides of a product comparison that this artist devoted to this project. I commend him for his time and talent as a photographer to present an unbiased photo journalistic comparison. I will say, if he was biased at any point in his review, he HONESTLY and CLEARLY stated it. There is no denying that. |
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Post by Raven on Apr 16, 2008 16:10:28 GMT -5
Linda,
I wouldn't say 'defending', I just want to air both ends of the argument, as MC has not spoken on this matter, I thought I would try and be fair, and give the silent side a fair hearing. I don't know who has rights, but i do hear what you are saying about Gil's rights, I try and leave that to you, Gil and the law Courts, as you know me well enough by now Linda, I don't want to get involved in the legal side of things, i just want to see which is better quality for the price Master Cutlery or United Cutlery. Putting that aside, If someone has taken Gil's designs without permission, then i will BACK you all the way! I hope the Court hearing happens soon, so if you are owed an apology by myself, then I will offer it to you unequivocally. At this moment in time, I'm trying to look at both products with no baggage, what i mean is, I want to evaluate each knife on its own merits, and if the master Cutlery knife is crap, then i will say it is crap, the same goes with United's version. I don't pull any punches guys, if a spades a spade, i will call it that. I have nothing to gain, from either side of the argument, i just want the TRUTH behind which one is more consumer and user friendly.
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Post by onlylooking on Apr 21, 2008 19:49:22 GMT -5
Why is there so much aggression on these forums, agree to disagree. I don't know wither of you but have joined both of these 2 Rambo forums, as I am a huge fan and love the guns and knives.Raven you seem to get slammed everywhere you go.I think the biggest problem is people reading in to what they want to believe or think they're hearing in a post.You can't read hidden meanings and tones sometimes in posts, and sometimes you can even when there isn't one. The copyright thing is, you can get only so close to someone's design, but can't be exactly.Sorry I don't know how close is too close. That being said Gil is a great knife maker, I own several of his mass produced items, none handmade by him though, can't afford those. Why not then make a HIBBEN III,VER 2 now with 18" overall and some other tweaking to give it that "MOVIE LOOK" and HIBBEN IV,ver 2 now with movie quality wrapping to give it that "MOVIE LOOK", fans want to be honest and respectful, but when you make $15 to $20,000 a year a $1000 knife just ain't in the works for your budget but a $100-$150.00 one is. So I understand about the "KEEPING THE VALUE" on handmade knives by Gil, but I think if you had 2 knives...mass produced and handmade that looked exact in pictures, the quality (We already know will be in the handmade) but the majority buyer is the poorer man and the poorer man is the market, not the lucky few who can buy the more expensive knife.Albion armoury did it with Marto in producing their CONAN SWORDS, look alike in pictures, but the quality and cost is alot different, made everyone happy. So lets don't argue, let's fix the production values and looks of the United Cutlery ones and guess what......no one buys the Master Cutlery ones...that's it....done!If the demand is fixed so are the people trying to fullfill it legally or not.Happened with LIGHTSABERS and all of the Star Wars props untill Master Replicas came along.So don't take offense to someone's comments, take note to other companies in the past who had the same problem and fixed them.Hope you both have nice days and appreciate my 3rd party post. I mean no ill will to either.
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Post by Raven on Apr 30, 2008 16:51:23 GMT -5
Only looking, you are very wise, and most of your points are what i have been trying to get across. My MC Machete has arrived so heres a copy of my review for it, we will have to wait until I receive the UC one, to do a full comparison:      Here are some pics of the Master Cutlery machete. I cant do a comparison until my United Cutlery version arrives, but I will give you a brief run down of the Master Cutlery, while I am waiting. The knife feels well balanced, as it was taken from the design of the Props Master's version (slightly longer handle, with a tip that goes into more of a point, than the the UC and Hibben version). because all 3 knives measures approximately 18", as the MC handle is a tad longer, basic math tells us, that the blade length with be slightly shorter. The LEATHER sheath, is rugged, (Iam a bit dubious about the UC version with a black synthetic sheath), and is of good quality for a mass produced knife, the same quality as that of the original United Cutlery Rambo knives. The blade thickness is of ample proportion, and very robust. The cord and LEATHER tape wrapped handle is well put together, and is very ergonomically friendly, as the leather wrap softens the grip of the full tang construction. The down sides (not many) are that I would have preferred the carbon steel to have been polished, but it wouldn't be a hard job to do this yourself. Although the sheath is very good quality, and is made to fit the blade like a glove, I still would have preferred an open ended screen accurate sheath, It is however as I have mentioned before, a liability issue, having an open ended sheath, the sheath although not screen accurate, has been kept in keeping with the Rambo 3 sheath regarding the belt loop. We must also remember, that ALL of the mass produced sheaths, whether it be United Cutlery or Master Cutlery, NEVER had accuracy pertaining to the leather work (this is most likely due to keeping the product cost down for the consumer). On the whole it is a good knife based on its own merits! but I cannot give it a total thumbs up, until I receive the UC version. To summarize based on its own merits: 9/10 for screen accuracy of the Props Master's version (the one Rambo brandishes in the movies finali)...yet again, this comparison is just by sight, as I do not have a Props Master's version to compare it with. 7/10 for screen accuracy compared with the Hibben (although, I can't compare it with the real deal). 9/10 for quality This is a good knife, and only time will tell if the UC version will live up to its rival.  On a personal note, I honestly think that Master Cutlery has made an effort to knock out a quality knife this is a personal recommendation from a MODEST Collector and MASSIVE Rambo fan to all you other real fans on here. Although I am normally a stickler for screen accuracy, this knife has surprised me, as I did think that quality might be an issue, but it is NOT. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this knife to any Collector, it seems absolutely practical, and you could use this for chopping wood, the live edge is very sharp! How it will compare with the Hibben 4, is an entirely different issue, that will have to be addressed very shortly. Regarding the legality issue, your absolutely right about we could argue this case until the cows come home, and we wouldn't gain anything in doing so, apart from lowering the tone of this forum, and making this thread into a marketing campaign for other vested interested parties, which I don't, and I'm sure no one else (who matters, that is) wants to see! This would be better utilized on the Hibben forum (for hard core knife enthusiasts), what i have tried to do, is try and share my thoughts with Rambo knife fans such as myself, and not get hauled into SERIOUS and sometimes EMOTIONAL arguments. Your feedback about the knife is what its all about, I would never get nasty with your adult minded observations, as I think its GOOD to have BOTH sides of the argument aired! I'm not gonna sit here and preach to you which knife you SHOULD buy, but what I prefer, and if i can help others on here make an informed decision than all well and good. If people want a GOOD TOP QUALITY knife, then its got to be a HIBBEN, no doubt about it, but I must admit, that Master Cutlery have made an effort with this knife. I have NEVER really liked the design of this knife, its SIMPLICITY and BRUTAL design is not really what I had envisaged for a Rambo knife, but it plays well and is the most realistic option for the storyline of the current Rambo movie. What I found extremely hard to accept, were how my views were not just criticized (which is fair enough,if you are emotionally attached to the whole copyright argument), but how I was PERSONALLY belittled by most of the members on a certain knife forum. I expected to be criticized, as you have to expect that if you try and run against the current of general consensus of a close faction forum. But I suppose, it comes with the territory. |
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Post by Klaus on May 1, 2008 10:03:58 GMT -5
I really do believe that this forum is a fair one, as is the Zone, since here are only real Rambo fans, not people who maybe did see the films once or twice and claim to be fans. I am sure there won't be any insults from a particular party, and if there will be, that justice will be served and the member gets a warning and, if necessary, will be banned. This is not common practice on every forum, sadly, some forums do not play by the rules. It should be everyones right to have his opinion, whether it's a popular one or not, and each and every opinion should be respected even if another member does not agree. These pictures my mate Raven provided are great and should be quite some help for every Rambo fan out there who wants to buy the new knives (wait until Raven gets the UC one so you could see both). Thanks, Raven, old buddy!  |
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Post by Raven on May 1, 2008 11:12:15 GMT -5
I really do believe that this forum is a fair one, as is the Zone, since here are only real Rambo fans, not people who maybe did see the films once or twice and claim to be fans. I am sure there won't be any insults from a particular party, and if there will be, that justice will be served and the member gets a warning and, if necessary, will be banned. This is not common practice on every forum, sadly, some forums do not play by the rules. It should be everyones right to have his opinion, whether it's a popular one or not, and each and every opinion should be respected even if another member does not agree. These pictures my mate Raven provided are great and should be quite some help for every Rambo fan out there who wants to buy the new knives (wait until Raven gets the UC one so you could see both). Thanks, Raven, old buddy! No problem Klaus  This is what I don't understand about some posters, they cant find any intelligent or worthwhile argument to put across, when I ask clear questions to my observations, so they have to resort to childish name calling and belittling....kindergarten at BEST!, and libelous unprofessional bile at WORST! Even with the name calling that I have had to endure from the odd one or two high profile posters, I have still managed to retain my composure, and kept things polite, as its ONLY a knife at the end of the day. These 3 people are showing their true colors now, by their nasty little jibes, and foul mouthed exhibitionism, and I think that they under estimated peoples ability to see through their hard sell ball*hit! Also at present the Jury's out on the legal front, if tomorrow the Courts ruled that Master Cutlery and the film studio were indeed not licensed to use the Rambo trade mark, or not licensed to reproduce the movie knives, then I would concede, but until the day I hear THAT verdict, I'm going to explore every version that comes onto the open market, and look at things objectively, rather than with a deep flowing tainted perspective. After all, I have no PERSONAL problem with anybody, I have been conversing with Linda Hibben for the past few months now, and she and Gil are REALLY NICE people, who go out of their way to help! but it now seems that I have made a few enemies, who know the Hibben's, and mistakenly think that their offensive stance is helping matters, which it is not. So I'm being scrutinized by reviewing a taboo (in some peoples eyes) product....go figure  |
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